[hackerspaces] Group chat for hackerspaces going to Congress

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[hackerspaces] Group chat for hackerspaces going to Congress

Rubin Abdi
For the last Camp and Congress, most folks orbiting around or with Noisebridge have used Google Hangouts as a group chat thing. Trying to get people on one service is really painful, and eventually degrades into an argument about privacy, encryption, and bike shedding.

This year I've started a matrix of chat protocols and services groups at a conference such as Congress could use. It's not meant to declare a winner, but to give folks a nice overview of all the trade offs of going with a particular service so that you can make a good choice as to what works well specifically for you. Ironically it's hosted on Google Docs...


Services are listed, not clients (Tor Messenger is a client). Encryption isn't at the top of the list because YOU'RE ALREADY GOING TO A LARGE HACKER CONFERENCE and if your threat model is being snooped on over IM then maybe you should rethink the life choices that has lead you to communicating in a group chat with a bunch of other paranoid hackers whom are running a variety of unaudited phone hardware and operating systems. I am happy to discuss this further, but only in person, over drinks, during New Years, in Berlin.

Feel free to update the list if you've got new information to add.

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Re: [hackerspaces] Group chat for hackerspaces going to Congress

Walter van Holst
On 17/11/2015 01:10, Rubin Abdi wrote:

> This year I've started a matrix of chat protocols and services groups at
> a conference such as Congress could use. It's not meant to declare a
> winner, but to give folks a nice overview of all the trade offs of going
> with a particular service so that you can make a good choice as to what
> works well specifically for you. Ironically it's hosted on Google Docs...

Given that Congress is about walled gardens, it is quite ironic indeed.

What the fuck is wrong with you that you can't be arsed to put it on a
static html page somewhere? Even a simple pdf attachment would have
worked for everyone.

And no, I am not going to log in to any goddamn Google service to read a
table.

Also, people don't use encryption because their threat model consists of
being snooped upon as part of targeted intelligence gathering. If you
are in that position you're boned anyway. You use encryption to raise
the cost of dragnet surveillance and/or to keep non-state (e.g.
corporate) surveillance out of your life. So yes, encryption should be
on top of your list. But your list is already pretty useless anyway.

Regards,

 Walter

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Re: [hackerspaces] Group chat for hackerspaces going to Congress

Joshua Pritt
This reminds me of the SpacePhone project I was trying to get started.
Basically like the Jetsons each hackerspace would have a dedicated PC/laptop with a web cam and speakers/mic where they could click the logo/name of a space with a SpacePhone and it would "ring" (with giant spinning lights if they want!) so each space could easily make video calls to each other to work on joint projects or ask quick questions, etc.
We could even add a tag to the Space API to show if the space has a SpacePhone: true|false.


On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 5:03 AM, Walter van Holst <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 17/11/2015 01:10, Rubin Abdi wrote:

> This year I've started a matrix of chat protocols and services groups at
> a conference such as Congress could use. It's not meant to declare a
> winner, but to give folks a nice overview of all the trade offs of going
> with a particular service so that you can make a good choice as to what
> works well specifically for you. Ironically it's hosted on Google Docs...

Given that Congress is about walled gardens, it is quite ironic indeed.

What the fuck is wrong with you that you can't be arsed to put it on a
static html page somewhere? Even a simple pdf attachment would have
worked for everyone.

And no, I am not going to log in to any goddamn Google service to read a
table.

Also, people don't use encryption because their threat model consists of
being snooped upon as part of targeted intelligence gathering. If you
are in that position you're boned anyway. You use encryption to raise
the cost of dragnet surveillance and/or to keep non-state (e.g.
corporate) surveillance out of your life. So yes, encryption should be
on top of your list. But your list is already pretty useless anyway.

Regards,

 Walter

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Re: [hackerspaces] Group chat for hackerspaces going to Congress

webmind
On 17/11/15 15:36, Joshua Pritt wrote:
> This reminds me of the SpacePhone project I was trying to get started.
> Basically like the Jetsons each hackerspace would have a dedicated
> PC/laptop with a web cam and speakers/mic where they could click the
> logo/name of a space with a SpacePhone and it would "ring" (with giant
> spinning lights if they want!) so each space could easily make video
> calls to each other to work on joint projects or ask quick questions, etc.
> We could even add a tag to the Space API to show if the space has a
> SpacePhone: true|false.
> http://spaceapi.net/

I like the idea of easily calling other spaces, but we already have
basic voip-phones + a no camera policy, so that bit be out.

Voip federation between spaces would be nice though.


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Re: [hackerspaces] Group chat for hackerspaces going to Congress

Rubin Abdi

I've been wanting to build a video phonebooth for ages now.

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On Nov 17, 2015 09:03, "webmind" <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 17/11/15 15:36, Joshua Pritt wrote:
> This reminds me of the SpacePhone project I was trying to get started.
> Basically like the Jetsons each hackerspace would have a dedicated
> PC/laptop with a web cam and speakers/mic where they could click the
> logo/name of a space with a SpacePhone and it would "ring" (with giant
> spinning lights if they want!) so each space could easily make video
> calls to each other to work on joint projects or ask quick questions, etc.
> We could even add a tag to the Space API to show if the space has a
> SpacePhone: true|false.
> http://spaceapi.net/

I like the idea of easily calling other spaces, but we already have
basic voip-phones + a no camera policy, so that bit be out.

Voip federation between spaces would be nice though.


--
GPG Key: https://u2m.nl/data/webmind.asc
GPG Fingerprint:         0506976E 234653B4 A628EC33 E23D16EE FCF154AE
XMPP [hidden email]:  D79970A8 7EC43E29 186D86BA 590F20F6 4C7930B8
XMPP [hidden email]: 11E91112 091881F7 53EF6108 63C48543 C74D035C
u2m.nl (exp: 08/04/2016) SHA256:
C2:40:67:22:25:52:29:AF:DF:50:4E:2A:6B:32:6D:BC:5B:1E:CA:7D:52:3B:4C:4A:21:5D:C8:E5:AE:7D:1A:09
Puscii (exp: 04/03/2016) SHA256:
F9:C7:B1:B7:90:6B:17:BF:84:93:93:7C:0F:B4:FD:BE:E3:C0:71:9D:83:01:ED:3A:96:FE:FC:82:9D:30:51:C9



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Re: [hackerspaces] Group chat for hackerspaces going to Congress

ITechGeek
In reply to this post by webmind

On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 12:02 PM, webmind <[hidden email]> wrote:
I like the idea of easily calling other spaces, but we already have
basic voip-phones + a no camera policy, so that bit be out.

Voip federation between spaces would be nice though.

Not all hackerspaces have a no camera policy, I think the whole if a space has video phones should be a space by space option, but a hackerspace phone system would be good.

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Re: [hackerspaces] Group chat for hackerspaces going to Congress

JB Zurn

It seems like you could make the video part optional. If one party doesn't have a camera just display a blank screen or default image.

-Brooks


On Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 1:03 PM ITechGeek <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 12:02 PM, webmind <[hidden email]> wrote:
I like the idea of easily calling other spaces, but we already have
basic voip-phones + a no camera policy, so that bit be out.

Voip federation between spaces would be nice though.

Not all hackerspaces have a no camera policy, I think the whole if a space has video phones should be a space by space option, but a hackerspace phone system would be good.

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Preferred GPG Key: Fingerprint: AB46B7E363DA7E04ABFA57852AA9910A DCB1191A
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Re: [hackerspaces] Group chat for hackerspaces going to Congress

Arclight
In reply to this post by Rubin Abdi

As I understand it, the OTR chat protocol requires a "deniability" feature that for technical reasons, makes it pretty much incompatible with normal "group chat" as we know it.  I'd also be curious what is out there with similar support that can properly handle non-MITM'd by Google encrypted rooms.

Arclight
23b Shop

On Nov 16, 2015 4:11 PM, "Rubin Abdi" <[hidden email]> wrote:
For the last Camp and Congress, most folks orbiting around or with Noisebridge have used Google Hangouts as a group chat thing. Trying to get people on one service is really painful, and eventually degrades into an argument about privacy, encryption, and bike shedding.

This year I've started a matrix of chat protocols and services groups at a conference such as Congress could use. It's not meant to declare a winner, but to give folks a nice overview of all the trade offs of going with a particular service so that you can make a good choice as to what works well specifically for you. Ironically it's hosted on Google Docs...


Services are listed, not clients (Tor Messenger is a client). Encryption isn't at the top of the list because YOU'RE ALREADY GOING TO A LARGE HACKER CONFERENCE and if your threat model is being snooped on over IM then maybe you should rethink the life choices that has lead you to communicating in a group chat with a bunch of other paranoid hackers whom are running a variety of unaudited phone hardware and operating systems. I am happy to discuss this further, but only in person, over drinks, during New Years, in Berlin.

Feel free to update the list if you've got new information to add.

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Re: [hackerspaces] Group chat for hackerspaces going to Congress

Jamalaka-2
Moin,

Quoting Arclight (2015-11-17 21:39:10)
> As I understand it, the OTR chat protocol requires a "deniability" feature that
> for technical reasons, makes it pretty much incompatible with normal "group
> chat" as we know it.  I'd also be curious what is out there with similar
> support that can properly handle non-MITM'd by Google encrypted rooms.

deniability works just by the fact that you don't singn each
message, so each of the participants could create messages that look
like some other participant sent it.

During the chat-session it should not be possible to do so.

kind regards
Jamalaka
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Re: [hackerspaces] Group chat for hackerspaces going to Congress

hellekin-3
In reply to this post by JB Zurn
On 11/17/2015 08:29 PM, JB Zurn wrote:
> It seems like you could make the video part optional. If one party
> doesn't have a camera just display a blank screen or default image.
>

Or use HASCIIcam https://www.dyne.org/software/hasciicam/

==
hk

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