Re: [hackerspaces] Matrx group chat channels

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Re: [hackerspaces] Matrx group chat channels

Jurgen Gaeremyn

Hey,

Hackerspace Brussels is also active on Matrix. We have our own server at https://ptt.hackerspace.be and you can join us at:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ptt.hackerspace.be/#/room/#hsbxl:hackerspace.be">https://ptt.hackerspace.be/#/room/#hsbxl:hackerspace.be (room for the Brussels space)

This one is a bit calmer, but geared at all Belgian hackerspaces - for anouncing events or asking tech questions...
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ptt.hackerspace.be/#/room/#42:hackerspace.be">https://ptt.hackerspace.be/#/room/#42:hackerspace.be

Quite a few Belgian hackerspaces are on the server - though it's mainly bridges to the IRC channel for the others.

  • <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ptt.hackerspace.be/#/room/#urlab:hackerspace.be">https://ptt.hackerspace.be/#/room/#urlab:hackerspace.be (Urlab Brussels)
  • <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ptt.hackerspace.be/#/room/#0x20:hackerspace.be">https://ptt.hackerspace.be/#/room/#0x20:hackerspace.be (Whitespace, Ghent)
  • <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ptt.hackerspace.be/#/room/#walkingrobot:hackerspace.be">https://ptt.hackerspace.be/#/room/#walkingrobot:hackerspace.be (Walking Robot, Antwerp)
  • <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ptt.hackerspace.be/#/room/#voidwarranties:hackerspace.be">https://ptt.hackerspace.be/#/room/#voidwarranties:hackerspace.be (Voidwarranties, Antwerp)
  • <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ptt.hackerspace.be/#/room/#brixel:hackerspace.be">https://ptt.hackerspace.be/#/room/#brixel:hackerspace.be (Brixel, Hasselt)
  • <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ptt.hackerspace.be/#/room/#lghs:hackerspace.be">https://ptt.hackerspace.be/#/room/#lghs:hackerspace.be (Liège Hackerspace)
I've put Tom in cc, he's the guy putting all the extra features in the server. There are connections with out mailinglist, with our IRC channels, and he's working on bridging a lot of other stuff too... Maybe other Matrix admins can get in touch with each other (though I would imagine there's a Matrix channel where you guys already found each other long ago).

Come to think of it... does anyone already have a bridge with the Space API? An automatic signal when the space opens or closes, would be nice ;)

Grtz,
Jurgen

On 07-07-17 11:39, Kẏra ​ wrote:
Hey,

Do any of you use Matrix?

I noticed there are rooms to follow the email lists already:

* <a href="https://riot.im/app/#/room/#hackerspaces-discuss:tang.ents.ca" moz-do-not-send="true">https://riot.im/app/#/room/#hackerspaces-discuss:tang.ents.ca
* <a href="https://riot.im/app/#/room/#hackerspaces-announce:tang.ents.ca" moz-do-not-send="true">https://riot.im/app/#/room/#hackerspaces-announce:tang.ents.ca

There are other rooms too like

* Free Software: <a href="https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freesoftware:matrix.org" moz-do-not-send="true">https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freesoftware:matrix.org
* Particl: <a href="https://riot.im/app/#/room/#particl:matrix.org" moz-do-not-send="true">https://riot.im/app/#/room/#particl:matrix.org
* Ring: <a href="https://riot.im/app/#/room/#gnu-ring:matrix.org" moz-do-not-send="true">https://riot.im/app/#/room/#gnu-ring:matrix.org

Just figured I'd share!


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Re: [hackerspaces] Matrx group chat channels

Big Smile
What is the advantage compared to Jabber/XMMP or IRC?

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Re: [hackerspaces] Matrx group chat channels

Kẏra ​

On Jul 8, 2017 1:31 PM, "Big Smile" <[hidden email]> wrote:
What is the advantage compared to Jabber/XMMP or IRC?

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Re: [hackerspaces] Matrx group chat channels

Big Smile
Can't understand why they don't use XMPP and participate in XEP
writting. This look like an another "not invented here" driven project.
:(
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Re: [hackerspaces] Matrx group chat channels

Kẏra ​
Why did you just ignore the answer when I sent it?

What is the difference between Matrix and XMPP?

The Matrix team used XMPP (Openfire, ejabberd, spectrum, asmack, XMPPFramework) for IM before starting to experiment with open HTTP APIs as an alternative in around 2012. The main issues with XMPP that drove us in this direction were:

    Not particularly web-friendly - you can’t easily speak XMPP from a web browser. (N.B. Nowadays you have options like XMPP-FTW and Stanza.io that help loads with letting browsers talk XMPP).
    Single logical server per MUC is a single point of control and availability. (MUCs can be distributed over multiple physical servers, but they still sit behind a single logical JID and domain. FMUC improves this with a similar approach to Matrix, but as of Oct 2015 there are no open source implementations.)
    History synchronisation is very much a second class citizen feature
    Bridging to other protocols and defragmenting existing communication apps and networks is very much a second class citizen feature
    Stanzas aren’t framed or reliably delivered without extensions. (See wiki.xmpp.org for an XMPP take on this)
    Multiple device support is limited. (Apparently Carbons and MAM help with this)
    Baseline feature set is so minimal that fragmentation of features between clients and servers is common, especially as interoperability profiles for features have fallen behind (as of July 2015)
    No strong identity system (i.e. no standard E2E PKI, unless you count X.509 certs, which are questionable)
    Not particularly well designed for mobile use cases: push; bandwidth-efficient transports. (Since the time of writing a Push XEP has appeared, and wiki.xmpp.org claims that XMPP runs “fine” over a 9600bps + 30s latency link.)

The whole subject of XMPP vs Matrix seems to bring out the worst in people. Rather than fighting over which open interoperable communication standard works the best, we should just collaborate and bridge everything together. The more federation and interoperability the better.

We think of Matrix and XMPP as being quite different; at its core Matrix can be thought of as an eventually consistent global JSON db with an HTTP API and pubsub semantics - whilst XMPP can be thought of as a message passing protocol. You can use them both to build chat systems; you can use them both to build pubsub systems; each comes with different tradeoffs. Matrix has a deliberately extensive ‘kitchen sink’ baseline of functionality; XMPP has a deliberately minimal baseline set of functionality. If XMPP does what you need it to do, then we’re genuinely happy for you :) Meanwhile, rather than competing, an XMPP Bridge like Skaverat’s xmpptrix beta or jfred’s matrix-xmpp-bridge or Matrix.org’s own purple-matrix has potential to let both environments coexist and make the most of each other’s benefits.
What is the difference between Matrix and IRC?

We love IRC.  In fact, as of today the core Matrix team still uses it as our primary communication tool. Between us we’ve written IRCds, IRC bots and admined dreamforge, UnrealIRCd, epona, ircservices and several others. That said, it has some limitations that Matrix seeks to improve on:

    Text only
    No history
    No multiple-device support
    No presence support
    Fragmented identity model
    No open federation
    No standard APIs, just a rather limited TCP line protocol
    Non-standardised federation protocol
    No built-in end-to-end encryption
    Disruptive net-splits
    Non-extensible

IRCv3 exists and is addressing some of these issues; this is great news and we wish them well. It’s almost a contradiction in terms to get competitive between openly interoperable communication projects - we look forward to increasing the richness of Matrix<->IRC bridges as the project progresses.

On Jul 8, 2017 1:47 PM, "Big Smile" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Can't understand why they don't use XMPP and participate in XEP
writting. This look like an another "not invented here" driven project.
:(
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Re: [hackerspaces] Matrx group chat channels

Big Smile


Le samedi 08 juillet 2017 à 15:32 -0400, Kẏra  a écrit :
> Why did you just ignore the answer when I sent it?

My answer was after reading yours. I disagree with their arguments
because you can cover what they needs by using existing XEP or write
some news.
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Re: [hackerspaces] Matrx group chat channels

Kẏra ​
Since their arguments were also about fragmentation, no you can't.

On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Big Smile <[hidden email]> wrote:


Le samedi 08 juillet 2017 à 15:32 -0400, Kẏra  a écrit :
> Why did you just ignore the answer when I sent it?

My answer was after reading yours. I disagree with their arguments
because you can cover what they needs by using existing XEP or write
some news.
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Re: [hackerspaces] Matrix group chat channels

Danilo Bargen
In reply to this post by Big Smile
Am Sa, 8. Jul 2017, um 19:46, schrieb Big Smile:
> Can't understand why they don't use XMPP and participate in XEP
> writting. This look like an another "not invented here" driven project.
> :(

They have a section about XMPP in their FAQ:

http://matrix.org/docs/guides/faq.html#what-is-the-difference-between-matrix-and-xmpp

Danilo
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